Macy Robison 0:00 Hey there, this is the first of several episodes I'm going to be interspersing with my solo episodes, where I'll be interviewing some of my clients. Now, last week I told you, you can't find your clearest signal alone. This week, you'll hear what that looked like for one of my clients who has spent years trying to do that. My guest today is Tricia Rose Burt. Tricia is an impeccable storyteller. She spent years on stages with the Moth, she ran trainings for them, she was a facilitator for Story Brand, she had an award-winning one-woman show, and she teaches the skill of storytelling to private equity firms and corporations. She's also the host of the award-winning podcast, No Time to Be Timid. Now, for years, Tricia has tried to take storytelling in different directions. She wanted to turn her stories into a book. It didn't land the way she hoped it would. One publisher told her, after she spent all this time typing out a memoir that the spark Tricia had on stage didn't show up on the page, and she's kept going in these different directions, trying and testing different things, because people have told her to build in this specific way. Now, Tricia is a Resonant Orator, and her score is one of the highest I've ever seen on the assessment in terms of her primary score, and what you'll hear in our conversation is what happens when someone stops trying to work against the way they're wired and finally gives themselves permission to work with it. Welcome, Tricia. I'm so excited to have you here. This is the first conversation like this I've had where I'm having the opportunity to talk to someone who has worked with me on this resonant thought leader system and archetype assessment stuff. So excited to have you here. Would love to start by having you tell us a little bit about who you are and the work that you do. Unknown Speaker 1:53 Macy, I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you so much. I feel like I've been on the cutting edge of the archetype assessment work from the beginning, so this is so great, so yeah, so again, I'm Tricia Rose Burt. I'm the host of a podcast called No Time to Be Timid, which are conversations between the intersection of creativity and courage. I'm a storyteller. I spent years working with the Moth, and on their stage, The Moth is an organization dedicated to the art and craft of storytelling, and worked for a long time, where I met you with StoryBrand, and using, you know, story to help businesses move their mission forward, and so now I tell my own stories, and I amplify other artists' stories, I like to focus on people who just create something out of nothing, and I like to focus on people who have done very courageous things, and that may be a small thing. It doesn't mean like, and I did this huge feat. It just means they pivoted and changed courses and took a chance that they didn't think they could otherwise take. As one of my guests said, I like to be the voice in people's ears that say you can, I also teach story to, you know, private equity firms and businesses and corporations to help those people get brave and to tell their stories in a more succinct and compelling way. So, what comes very naturally to me apparently does not come naturally to other people that excellent, Macy Robison 3:23 excellent point. Well, and I think that kind of leads into the other thing I wanted to ask you, as you're introducing yourself, you said we met back back in the day when we were in the day Macy Robison 3:36 doing coaching for Story Brand, but what were you trying to figure out when you first came to this work, like you said, you were early to this, we worked together, I think, before I even developed the assessment, and I came back to you and made you take it. Speaker 4 3:52 So what were.. I got to take it, you got to take Macy Robison 3:55 it. What were you trying to figure out in terms of the, I guess, gap between the work that you do and, and how you were showing up to Unknown Speaker 4:05 it. Nothing was integrated. It felt very.. I mean, there was something.. there was a podcast over there, there was consulting work over there, there was some, you know, some creative work over.. just nothing felt integrated. I felt very inefficient, and, you know, as you and I've discussed, I am a woman of a certain age, and I don't feel like I have time to be inefficient anymore, and I had spent years working on a memo. I did, first of all, I did a one woman show, I'm backing up a little bit, but this is why I got to you, I did a one woman show for years that was very successful, and successful in terms of yes, it won awards, but also it resonated with a lot of people, and I'd had some good exposure with them off and success there, and somebody had said to me, "You need to write a book, and I'm like, "Okay, I'll write a book, you know, based on this one woman show, not knowing even. What that meant, and I spent years working on a memoir, and it never got picked up, and I had one producer say to me, or one publisher say to me, the spark you have on the stage does not show up on the page, and it was hard to hear, but I'm like, she's right, and so when I showed up with you, which was, I guess, in January of 2025 I was like, something has got to shift here, like, what? Like, I felt like I had, I just had all this, you know, potential was a word I sort of hate, but nothing was landing anywhere. And then when we did this archetype assessment, and I came out as a resident order, it was like, oh, well, no wonder the book didn't get picked, like, like it was like, so for me, it made me go, it's not that I'm not talented, it's not that I don't have a story to tell, I was just doing it wrong, not wrong, I was not doing it in a way that aligned with what I do best, and you know, and so it was, I can remember going out to the studio and trying to write, and going, I would rather just throw myself in front of a speeding car, but apparently this is supposed to be a book, so I'll keep, because this is supposed to be a book, everybody's telling me it should be a book, so I'm gonna just keep trying, I kept like throwing myself against this wall, and and it's, you know, and it would always happen every time somebody heard a story on the Moth Radio Hour, and then they would reach out and say, you know, that really ought to be a book, but it's because they just heard me telling a story, Macy Robison 6:34 and they want to experience in their own way, on their own terms, and share with other people, and that's a, it's a huge compliment, Unknown Speaker 6:40 it is indeed. Macy Robison 6:42 Yeah, and I think the thing that was exciting for me to realize, because, like, we said, you were, we figured a lot of things out. I think when we work together, in terms of the connectedness of it all, that a lot of it does have to do with story, and even the way you talk about No Time to Be Timid. There's a manifesto that goes with that, that goes with the podcast that basically gives you a permission slip to say there's something that you want to do, if there's something that you want to try, if there's some way you want to show up, you have permission to do it, and the thing that I like to lovingly remind you of is that applies to you as well, because you're the one who came up with this medicine in the first place, but we'll talk about that later, but as it relates to the book, I think it's really, really a good illustration of just the way that you start and the way that you finish don't have to be the same. I think a lot of the friction that you were describing comes from this tendency all of us have to say, well, they asked us to do it, or that person wrote a book, so let me just, I guess, sit down and type something, because that's how you write a book, but there's there's a way to kind of trickster your way through it and start with the creation mode that is most natural for you, which in your case, resident orator, it's an expressive archetype as far as the frequencies go, you know what you know because you say it out loud, all of the success that you've had with storytelling, I think, can be like not attributed to that, but like it makes sense that that worked really well, because you were on stage talking and telling stories, and people resonated with that, but then switching modes and saying now I'm going to take my enormous storytelling skill that comes through my spoken word and try to channel it through my fingertips into a keyboard, it just doesn't feel as natural. It doesn't work the same, and even if the book had come out, it probably wouldn't be as resonant as you telling your stories on stage is. But the great news is, like, we can take that creation mode of talking and just get some transcriptions and organizing, Unknown Speaker 8:41 and what's also interesting, I can remember, I remember where I was standing, I was in Parnassus Books in Nashville, and I was looking through, I mean, nothing, and the iron is, nothing makes me happier than being in a bookstore, I mean, I just love to hold books and touch books and be around me, I love everything about books, I also feel the same way, and hardware stores and art supply stores, I think if I'm around anything where something has been made, it makes me very happy. But I was in Parnassus Books, and there's.. I can't remember what the title of somebody's book was, but I was like, "Should I be writing a manifesto or a memoir? So I was even, you know, doubting what I was in the thick of trying to do, going, "I'm sure I'm supposed to do this. I feel, what is a manifesto, you know? And it took me a couple years to, you know, flush this thing out, and the help of a creative coach that I found who was really wonderful, but, but, yeah, so it was kind of.. it's almost like I had to start listening to myself, and also I think the thing that's so interesting about the Resonant Orator, again, I bring this up a lot. Is I mean, I was raised never to draw attention to myself. There was a lot of unlearning, or un or just letting how I was told to be, so I could step into what I was, what I am, who I, you know, so there's a lot of. You know, a lot of it is the messages that we get sent growing up as well, that we have to go. Actually, I don't think I need to believe that anymore. You know Macy Robison 10:11 that, and good to let it go, too. I think it's important for anyone, but you know, resident orator by nature is a - I've got to put my voice out there - kind of an archetype, and I think the thing that's interesting about your results, in particular, is when we look at the raw scores behind just the primary results, you know, someone else could also be a resident orator as far as their initial result in the test, but your raw score is 77% which is very high, like 30% is kind of the threshold where when I'm working with clients, or someone comes to a workshop, and we go through these expanded results, like we need to pay attention. At about 30% everything above that is kind of blend together and be the primary signal, but for you it's like way up there all by itself, and always Unknown Speaker 10:55 overachieving, Macy, always overachieving. You guys said Macy Robison 10:59 A plus. Well, it's also like some of the things that we've talked about in calls, and some of the things you've described today, I think are a function of that. Of being on stage by yourself is scary, and that's the archetypal equivalent of like your voice has got to be out there, and sometimes on its own, and that takes courage, and it takes grounding, and it takes giving yourself permission to continue to do that, which is why I love your manifesto so much. And we'll put your brand new, beautiful website in the show notes, so people think so. Download and look at that, because it is, I think, a helpful thing to walk through in terms of giving yourself permission to show up and lead with your voice, but I wanted to with that with that resident orator archetype. What is it that that has done? You said to me earlier that it's become a decision filter for you. Can you give me some examples of how that has been the case? Unknown Speaker 11:53 Well, I mean, even when I was designing my website, and even when I, so when how I lead with speaking on the website, even when I was filming videos, for we were doing these shorts for each No Time Be Timid manifested principle. I was like, I need to be standing up because I want to be speaking, so that people could see me stay. So, so it's with small things, and it's with, you know, we've talked about one on one coaching with me. I can do it. I'm good at it. I really enjoy the connection. I thrive if it's more than one person. Speaker 2 12:30 Yes, Unknown Speaker 12:31 because I'm just good with the group and with that interaction, and I'm really good at that, right? And that's not even the right way to say I'm really good at that. That energizes me. That's a better way to say than I'm good at that. That energizes me, and so I also say Macy Robison 12:48 you're really good at it, because it, and that's your secondary archetype, is that experience facilitator, to the point you said earlier, about like you can do really well with one on one, but if someone puts you in a workshop, even if it's not on stage telling your stories, if they put you in a storytelling workshop with a lot of people, that's a really powerful container for you to create. Unknown Speaker 13:09 Yeah, yeah, yep. And I think that's the optimal. I'm starting to understand what containers I thrive in, and isolated in my studio, writing is not a good container for me. I can again. I'm good at one on one coaching. The best container for me is with more people in a room, and, and, so that, that's exciting for me. I'm very aware of energy and, and creating an experience for people, even when back in the days, when I was doing visual work, when I would do a painting, it was never - I always imagined the painting in the final show it was going to hang in, I was always aware of the environment something was going to live in and operate in and what the overall picture was, and so even when I produce my podcast, it's sure it's that episode, but what is the season it's going to live in? What is this? So my brain, and so I think, I think again, working with you and the archetype assessment, archetype assessment, it's like I have realized that what I thought were disparate little skills, when you put them together, they're far more powerful. I'm also looking for, again, working smarter, because I worked dumb for a decade, I mean, just work, you know, just like Sisyphus pushing something up the hill, and I don't want it's just exhausting, I don't want to do that anymore, you know. So that did Macy Robison 14:49 get stuff up the hill, to the, you know, to his credit, and to yours, I think there's no work wasted, but I do think contrast LC, and I think that's been the interesting thing about our work. Together, is some of that contrast has been really stark, in terms of, oh, wait, this is easy, oh, I can just do this, and that sigh of relief that comes with that. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 15:09 and also, you know, I come from, I mean, I was a visual artist for years, and in a nonprofit capacity, and it's, it's very, it's been hugely helpful for me to talk to you. Going, why are you charging so little? And I'm like, oh, wow, you know, to also put value, whether it's a nonprofit or for-profit capacity, just to put value around what I can bring. And I also think, because I am a woman of a certain age, there's now a gravitas that comes, and it's like I just know more. I've been around long enough. I mean, I just know more, and so helping me to, to value that has been really helpful, and put, and again, the assessment helps you when you go, oh wait, I'm not, not everybody knows how to do this. This is something I know how to do, so there should be value attached to this, and there should be monetary value attached to this, and so, so it's made me far less wimpy when it comes to putting a price tag on working with me. You've been very helpful with that, yeah. Macy Robison 16:21 Thank you, and I think the thing that I've really learned from watching you connect and excavate and embrace the experience that you've had, like all of the threads were there all along. I think just giving yourself permission to connect them and put them together has been really, really cool. And the thing that I think is interesting about that is a lot of it's in your manifesto. So, I would love to - you said you were in the bookstore trying to decide if you should write a memoir or a manifesto. You ultimately wrote one. It has 10 different points. I would love to hear a little bit about it, maybe some of your favorite of the 10, but also how did you come up with that in the first place, what was the process for creating it? Unknown Speaker 17:03 Okay, so this is really interesting. So, as you know, my husband - there's a little context here - my husband was in a horrific accident, he's totally fine, very blessed. But I spent a year dedicated to making sure he came back in one piece, and at the end of that, I was like, I don't even know who I am at this point, and I was like, and I was doing some centering prayer, and crossed my mind, creative coach, I was like, do I need one or am I supposed to be one, and I thought, well, let me just reach out, and I found this man whose work I really enjoyed, his name is Mark McGinnis, he's over in England, and and he was, see, we were having a conversation, he said, Tricia, in your wildest, and just so you know, for, for like three or four years, I kept thinking of Joan of Arc, like I really need to read a book on Joan of Arc, I never read a book about Joan of Arc, but I just always wanted to read a book about Joan of Arc, and you know, and I thought, you know, am I.. am I supposed to write a manifesto? So, anyway, Mark had said to me, so Tricia, and your wildest dreams, what do you want to do? And I said, you know, this sounds crazy, but I have this big voice, and I'm always telling stories, and I'm always talking about creativity has changed my life, and what it's done for me, and, and I know it sounds crazy, and I don't even know what I'm saying when I say this out loud, but I think I'm supposed to start a movement, and he went, "Oh, okay, well, I think you should read a book about someone who started a movement. I think you should read a book about Joan of Arc, and I was like, and then he goes, and while you're at it, why don't you write a manifesto, and I was like, okay, this is just bizarre, like this, so that's when I started writing it, and so I think I just started writing like wisdom unaccumulated things that people had said to me, some versions of that are just experiences I've had, or and things I'd learned, and so I came up with 10 principles, because I thought 10 sounds great. All of my friends in recovery are like, you should have done 12, but anyway, I probably should have. It is a form of recovery, but at any rate, so 10 principles that just seemed like a tidy group and massaged them and ran them past people, and then got their feedback, and what they liked and what they didn't like, and and then just said yeah, we're going to do this, and so put it together, and again, a lot of it was hard won, you know, things that I figured out myself, and a lot of it, because a direct result of my experience being an artist, which was I was raised that, you know, logic was this superior form, logic and analysis and creativity was really inferior on some level, it was came. Came in way past after you've done the important stuff, and then that took me along, you know, I mean, I went to art school at 33 and went, oh, this has been the problem, I'm an artist, and you know, I was always trying to be in a business capacity, so anyway, so that's how I came up with it, you know, real trial and error just kind of said, okay, what, what crosses your mind. So, Macy Robison 20:25 and the thing I hear in that process, too, is like some of it you wrote down, but you went and said things to people and got feedback. Oh, yes, your voice to like hone it, which is really interesting. And I, I don't know if this is a function of you having such a high score on Resonant Orator, but one of my favorite things to do, just as you're listening on calls with Tricia, is remind her of her own words, so when she's nervous about something, or something like that, I'll say, well, someone really smart said the riskiest thing you can do is play it safe, which is the first point of the manifesto, and if you look at your lived experience, I would say you've done anything but play it safe, and, and I love that. Like, the mess that we've walked through becomes our medicine, and it's such potent medicine that you've created for other people and for yourself. Thank Speaker 2 21:10 you. Macy Robison 21:10 I think it's just really exciting to see you continue to lean into it. It is Unknown Speaker 21:15 funny when people say, I'll say something out loud that makes me scared, and everyone, mostly you, everyone will say, you know, this person wrote this thing called No Time Be Timid. I'm like, usually I was, usually I respond with some sort of obscenity, which is not appropriate. But anyway, I'm like, you're right, Who made that up? But about the riskiest thing you knew is play it safe. I played it safe for a long time, and it all blew up. That's when I was like, why, why am I bothering playing it safe, which is that there's no guarantee if I play it safe anyway, and there's just no guarantee. And so, you know, that's why I mean, I don't, again, don't recommend everybody do this, but I kind of reached this point in my mid 30s, and you know, in one week, quit my job, sold my car, divorced my husband, and cash on my retirement saving. By the way, divorcing my husband was not a whim. We had been going through that process. It was not like I don't want him anymore. It was, you know, it was thoughtful. But I mean, just, just want, let's just do this. Let's just go, and I moved to Ireland, and you know, because I had to reset, I could, I had, I had created a life that required a very high paying job, I did not want anymore, and so I had to do this whole reboot. Now, you and I both know Sweet David Peck, who has a different way of, like, let's edit it and not blow your life up, and so I would recommend the more subtle approach, but for me it was, it made sense at the time to course correct in that sharp of a way. Macy Robison 22:49 Well, and I think playing it safe or refusing to play it safe looks different at different stages in your life, and I think the interesting thing about no time to be timid is when you have a clock that's sitting on top of that, you do kind of light a fire under yourself to make decisions, and I guess, I guess I have a question. Then, based on this, and based on bringing all of this into clarity, and knowing a little bit more how you're wired, what what feels possible that didn't feel possible before, based on the work you feel like you're here to do, I Unknown Speaker 23:25 I, okay, I am 65 years old. It amazes me that I mean, like, I started my podcast at 62 so I think what feels possible is, I mean, why the hell not, you know? I mean, I, you know, I just.. I'm, I'm not.. I, I feel like the only limits are the ones I'm putting on myself, and that's why I work with you, because you're helpful in saying, yeah, why are you.. why are you doing that, you know? And so we sort of need, well, number nine, there is courage in community, you know, is I need to be with tribe members who will remind me who I am, and number four, creativity is not a frivolous pursuit, like this is not new. This is.. I'm not.. this isn't luxury, this is life blood, right? I mean, this.. I don't mean to sound cocky, but it's like nothing is impossible. How do I want to? I always, I also think this. I have to not think about the product, I have to think about the process. If I think about the product, the end product, and I don't get to that end product, then I will have in my mind I can say I failed. If I think of. Out, I have an idea, and I'm going to hold this loosely, and I am going to work towards that. Then that feels much more possible than saying, if I don't reach this end goal, that means I failed, and because we live in a society where everybody's like, what do you do, not what are you working on? There's a very product-oriented, you know, I have to remind myself, process matters. Process matters. That fabulous book that Seth Godin wrote, The Practice, you know, it's about just showing up and making and showing up and making and showing up and making it short, I mean, I've never wanted to be famous, I have wanted the respect of my peers, and I have wanted, and I do want influence. I went when I give, I just gave a TEDx talk, which was great, and I had several people come up to me and tell them how much they removed and help them make a decision, all this stuff, and I think to myself, I wish I had a bigger platform, so that needle could move for more people. That is something I'd like to do, is have a bigger platform. Don't know how long that's going to take, don't know big to me, may not be big to you, I don't know what that looks like. Macy Robison 26:21 The thing that I love about that answer, actually, is you just talked about how number three, don't expect a linear path, don't expect Unknown Speaker 26:28 a linear path. Macy Robison 26:29 And when you can hold the result loosely and just focus on the process, the result takes care of itself. And I think that happened with your TED talk, for sure. You were really focused on the process of preparing and making sure you could feel confident stepping on the stage. I also believe the same will happen with the platform, if we can hold that loosely and keep making progress toward it. It's going to become what it becomes, and I'm excited to see what that becomes, because your voice is you and me Speaker 1 26:56 both, right? Macy Robison 26:58 Right. But go ahead, Unknown Speaker 27:02 excuse me for stepping on you, but you know, you had just said my voice is really powerful. What I have, a series of people have helped me realize you being the latest and really helping me get this into my DNA, I do have a powerful voice, and you know, if I don't believe that we're not going anywhere anyway. You know, I mean, I really have to embody that, and in with humility, right? I mean, I can have a powerful voice and not use it properly, or I can have a powerful voice and try to serve others and the common good and put some beauty out there and some compassion and some empathy out there, so you know how I'm, you know, I'm always at, you know, not to get all Jesusy on your podcast, but I'm always asking, you know, for the divine, How do you want me to, how do you want me to use this? How do you want me to use this? So Macy Robison 28:05 I love that, and I think that is humility. I think it's acknowledging that you have gifts and acknowledging where they came from, and and committing to using them in service of other people. Yeah, and then the outcomes will be the outcomes, and I think that's, I think the desire moves us toward that bigger outcome, like having the desire to help more people, and that does sometimes require, sometimes require a bigger audience and broader reach, and I think that all takes care of itself when you continue to show up as as who you are, and you're doing a really good job with that, and I'm happy to continue to nudge you through it, because it's really exciting to see the impact that you're able to have when that is all aligned. Unknown Speaker 28:42 Thank you. I'd also like some cash. I know we're on a spiritual, I know we're on a spiritual path, but I would like some cash. And it has been Macy Robison 28:51 coming, as you, it has been that I think is great about the work that you do as well, like with the consulting side of it, and with the speaking side of it, as that continues to grow, is storytelling and unapologetically showing up as who you are is the thing that that helps us in the age of AI that human connection and that point of view that can only best be cultivated I think through the ability to craft a story is more and more and more valuable and we see that a lot in articles and in the marketplace, and you're perfectly equipped to do all of that, which is exciting. Unknown Speaker 29:26 Well, and I really thank you, Macy, so much for, I mean, it's just so important to work with somebody who, who, I mean, I think I know myself, but I don't really, you know, I do, but I don't see some.. it's like everybody needs an editor and everybody needs a director, you know, I mean, I can remember when I wrote my one woman show, my director looked at it and says, "Do you see what you've done here? I went, "No, and I mean, and she was like, "You did that, you did, I didn't see any of it, I didn't see, and she was like, "We build on this, we do this, and I did not have the capacity to see it, I was too. Opposed to it, it was intuitive to me. I didn't understand that it was something that was significant or mattered, and it's the same thing with working with you. It's like, do you see what you're doing? Like, no, I, what really, it's so it's very helpful to have one, a person with, of course, you're just having your.. I keep telling people she's one of the smartest people I know, but to look at you and go, you do you see what you're doing here, and half the time it was like, no, I didn't know, I didn't know that, and so it's really helpful to have someone, in my case, you, who is helping me just make it more powerful to just make the engine run as smoothly as it can. Macy Robison 30:42 Well, thank you for saying that. I will say the thing that I've appreciated about people's willingness to take this archetype assessment and have it be a measurable signal that we can use in doing this work is it gives me something to point you back to that is measured in you, that is part of you, and it's who you are. So I just get to hold up a mirror and say, look, this is who you are, remember that's Unknown Speaker 31:05 a very powerful mirror. Also, the other thing that I love about working with you is you're an artist, so you get my artist brain, so it's that there's not a lot of us, Macy, who navigate the business world and the art world sort of seamlessly, and so it, it for me, it really matters to have somebody who understands, like when you talk about in terms of singing it, I can absolutely understand it, because it's my artist brain is going, yes, yes, I get that, yes, yes, yes, yes, and so that's a very helpful, really helpful for me. Macy Robison 31:38 Well, I would love to hear, thank you, and I would love to hear a little bit, what's on the horizon in terms of what you'd love to do next in terms of this, this wiring as a resident orator, so we can support you in that, and then I have one more wrap-up question in terms of your work, Unknown Speaker 31:56 you know, right now I kind of feel like I'm getting ready for something and I'm not sure what it is, you know. I just had two big events that I got done, and you know, I mean, I am ready for, well, right now a big effort is going into a YouTube channel, and so that's the summer. A lot of that's we're doing a lot around the YouTube channel. We're gonna be launching season five in the fall, and it will be on YouTube, you know, my speaking.. I'm really, I'm trying to go to scary places with my speaking. I'm, you know, I've got the bar set pretty high. I mean, in an ideal world, I could speak more often and be well compensated for that, so I'm just trying to find the right fits there, so I do, I feel like, you know, I'm in a place of readiness and kind of scoping things out and seeing what I want to target next, really, and again to your point of what's possible, not not be timid about, you know, the goals I'm setting for myself. Macy Robison 33:02 I love that. And then I guess my last question would be, if there's another resident oratory listening to this, and they've not really stepped into owning that wiring for themselves, what is some advice you would give them, or some counsel you would maybe give them as it relates to like owning this, this side of who you are. It is Unknown Speaker 33:25 far more painful not to use your voice than to use it. I am very big on not regretting something. There should be something in my manifesto about that, but I would far rather put myself out there and fail, then sit in a little corner saying I'm too scared to do it, I can't, so I'm not kidding you. There were so many voices that told me to stay quiet, and I did till my late 40s, and I'm like, this has got to stop, just this Speaker 2 34:04 is Unknown Speaker 34:04 nobody's benefiting from it. I can remember I was thinking, well, somebody's got to draw attention to themselves, and it might as well be me. And it started because I was reading on at church on Sundays. I would read the scripture at church on Sundays, and people would come up to me and say, oh, you should, you should be books on tape, and you should all this stuff, and I was realizing I think I'm getting more out of a kick reading this scripture than I should. And then a friend of mine said, 'Do you want to take a public speaking class with me? She goes, 'I'm so afraid to be in front of an audience, and I'm like, 'I look for audiences, like that's when I so again to your point, it is far harder not to use your voice than to use it. I Macy Robison 34:52 think that is great advice, and it's been really exciting to see what has happened. And what the fruits of that is have been both big and small. When you unapologetically lean into it, it's been amazing. Unknown Speaker 35:08 I have to put a governor on this thing. Let's be clear, I can either be a force for good or a force for evil. So you have to be thoughtful about how you're using this tool, but I just, you know, it's just, it's just too hard to stay small. It gets physically painful to just keep your self collapsed in on yourself, and it does no one any good. You know, I mean, particularly as women, we are told not to take up space, and that's just not going to do. That is not going to do. You need to take up the space Macy Robison 35:42 that probably goes along with to what you said a minute ago, like there's urgency to it. Make your mark now, like that's the last. That's the last item. Number Unknown Speaker 35:50 10, is this hanging in your studio? Macy, do you have a copy in your studio? Oh my god, Macy Robison 35:57 download one from your website. In fact, I would love to, as we wrap up, where can people find you and learn more about your work and support you as you continue to use your voice. Unknown Speaker 36:07 Tricia Rose Burt.com is my snazzy new website, T R I C I A, and and if you do slash manifesto, you can download the manifesto, and on YouTube I'm at Tricia Rose Burt, my podcast is No Time to Be Timid, and it's wherever you get your podcast. You can hear it on my website too. And I think that's it. Macy Robison 36:30 Perfect. Well, I'm excited to see what this, what this new season brings in terms of more speaking and more using your voice and just leaning into it unapologetically, because that has been the path for you, especially again, I think, having that resonant orator score be so high. There's a lesson in that, where it feels, it feels exposing, it feels like you're out there all by yourself, and singing a solo on a stage, I think, does feel like that, but when you just own that, that's the reality, and speak up anyway. It's really been cool to see, in your case, what has come because of that. Speaker 1 37:09 Thank you. And if I am certain that you're going to be behind me, pushing and on the sidelines, cheering if I'm moving anywhere forward. So, thank you so much for all of your incredible wisdom, and figuring out a puzzle that I was having trouble figuring out on my own. Macy Robison 37:28 Now, after listening to Tricia, here's the thing I want you to sit with. Tricia was never short on talent or story. The book she was trying to write didn't land, because she was trying to channel a voice that lives out loud through her fingertips onto a page at the same ending container, but it's the wrong process to get it there. The shift wasn't in her becoming a different person; it was permission to start the way she's actually built, which for a resident orator means out loud in her voice first. The way you start does not have to be the way you finish. If you've been forcing yourself into work through a format that drains you, it's not a discipline problem, it's probably a wiring problem. And the archetype assessment is where you find out. The link to take that assessment is in the show notes, or you can go to Macy robison.com forward slash quiz. Tricia actually worked with me as a client before I even finished building the assessment, and you heard her talk a little bit about what naming and having that archetype did for her to further the work we were doing even more. Here's to sending a clear signal, and I'll see you next week.