Welcome to Own Your Impact, the podcast designed to help you transform your expertise into a platform of purpose and influence. I'm your host Macy Robison, and I'm here to help you uncover your authentic voice, create actionable frameworks, and build a scalable platform that turns your ideas into meaningful impact. Today, I am talking with another one of my clients. I am so excited about this conversation, like I am about all of them. But I think you'll really enjoy this one because both my guest and myself have the same primary archetype of transformational guide. And for me, this conversation is about what happens when you take really good advice from someone else, and it turns out to be not exactly, not precisely your advice to take. My guest today is Kelsa Dickey. Kelsa is a financial coach, and she's been doing this work for about 17 years. She started out as financial advisor and left that world because the part of the money equation that her clients were really struggling with wasn't the part she was being paid to manage, and she has a really personal story about why she wanted to be on the coaching side and help people manage their day-to-day money decisions. She built a boutique practice called Fiscal Fitness back in 2008, when almost no one was doing financial coaching at all. And then in 2017, she launched the Financial Coach Academy and started training other coaches to do this work too. Kelsa has a book coming out on November 11th of this year, and she is right in the middle of bringing all of her businesses together under one methodology that she calls Spend First. It's brilliant. Now, like I said, Kelsa's primary archetype is Transformational Guide. If you look at her raw scores behind the scenes that we take a look at in our workshops and our client work, her transformational guide sits at 43% It's higher than mine. Mine's in the 30s. Strategic advisor is right behind it. Category creator is right there too. So all three of those top archetypes are working together to create her unique signal, her unique resonant expression that she sends out, but here's what I want you to be listening for. Kelsa did the thing that all of us are told to do when our business grows: step out of delivery, build a team, move up and out of the day-to-day client work, because that's what a CEO and a leader is "quote unquote" supposed to do. Kelsa followed all that advice, and the business grew. Everything worked. It worked exactly the way it was supposed to work. In fact, but for a long stretch, she had this feeling that she really missed the work. She missed her work. She couldn't exactly tell you what it was or what she missed. But once she learned about her archetype, learned she was a transformational guide, had the opportunity to start getting back into one-on-one conversations, as she's been recrafting her offers and working on the book, she realized what she was missing was those conversations with clients. Stepping out of those removed some of the proximity and inspiration and the knowledge of what her clients really needed and what she really wanted to deliver. I think there's so much richness in this conversation, and since this is the first guest client episode where I'm doing the interviewing and we share the exact same primary archetype, I want you to listen for some of the similarities and differences in our experiences as we talk together. Speaker 1 3:13 I am a financial coach. I started financial coaching about 17 years ago. Started as a financial advisor even before that, for a few years, because when I was in middle school, my mom really always struggled with money growing up. But it was in middle school that I saw she filed bankruptcy, and I just remember the day. I remember seeing her sit at our kitchen table, sometimes for hours, just trying to get a handle of her money, trying to manage it better. You know, she would have like a stack of mail in front of her, and then a stack of like unopened mail, and like a legal pad and a calculator, and she would just sit there for so long trying to manage her money better. And when I went to college, the guidance counselor said, "What do you want to do when you're older? And I said, "I want to help people with their money. And I, you know, of course, didn't know what bankruptcy meant by any means. I just knew that it caused my mom a lot of stress that money was a cause of stress in our house growing up, and it wasn't for a lack of trying. You know, like I really saw her try on a regular basis, and so I said I wanted to help people, and he said, "Oh, you should become a financial advisor. So I did that after getting my degree in finance, my master's degree, and then practice as a financial advisor for a few years. But really, it was not the part of money that my mom struggled with. That I saw that I was helping people with, and so I left financial advising and said, "I'm just going to help people with budgeting. You know, I would have a client come in and they would ask about asset allocation or risk tolerance, and we'd be managing their portfolio, and I would be so so bored out of my mind. And then a client would come in and they would have debt, and I would be like, "Yes, let's go. Let's roll up our sleeves and get to work. This sounds like a problem we can solve, you know. And so I just loved it, and I decided, you know, this was again back in 2008. Nobody was really just helping people with budgeting at the time, and so my main source of business was other financial advisors because that was the world that I. Came from it was the world that I knew, and I knew how many advisors were trying to help people with this part of their money, but weren't paid to do so. Right, you know, this was before fee based planning had really come about, and so they weren't getting paid to help people. And so I would just you know meet with them, and I would say, I want to help your clients with this part of their money. I'll partner with you right back. You know, I won't ever take clients and give them to somebody else, and that was really how my business formed. Was purely referral based, and I would just help people with budgeting is how it started. And now, of course, the business has grown quite a bit since then. I do a lot more than just budgeting. A lot of cash flow management for business owners, a lot of financial strategy, smart decision making for really capable professional. So when I first started, I really had this mindset that you know, like I would be helping broke people, and then the you know the more people I helped, the more I realized that you know some people were making really great income. In it, really didn't matter the amount of income that somebody had. You know, you could be in a variety of different forms of stress around money and just managing it, and the juggling act that so many people face from one day to the next with the money that's in their checking account. So not even their long-term investments, but just sort of the money that's sitting in their account. And so I did that for a number of years. The name of my business was Fiscal Fitness. It still is sort of a boutique practice. And then back in 2017, I launched the Financial Coach Academy because I started to mentor other financial coaches. Speaker 1 6:25 The first 10 years that I was in business, there really wasn't anybody else doing what I was doing, or there was like a very small handful of us, and we all knew each other, right? We would all like text each other and message each other and that sort of thing. And so I decided I wanted to start training other professionals to do this type of work as well. Help them. You know, how do you help people? How do you manage money effectively? How do you support people on their journey of financial growth? I also started to grow my own team at that time, so I had coaches who worked for me, and then I had coaches who would go work on their own, but I would just mentor them. And then that leads me to this year, and this is a big pivotal year for me in my business for the last since 2017, so about eight years, I did have two businesses that I was running. I had fiscal fitness, my boutique practice, where you know advisors and planners still referred people to us, and then I had the mentoring side of the business, Financial Coach Academy, and I did run them quite separately. And then this year, what I'm doing is merging everything under one roof, I'm essentially bringing all of the coaches and clients all together to say, I want to have a whole ecosystem of just everybody supporting each other under one sort of sound methodology, which is the methodology I created. And it feels very exciting. It feels right. I don't necessarily begrudge the the path that I took to get here. I think it all happened for a reason. I know sometimes people ask me like, "Would you do it this way to start before? And I don't think I was ready to do that. You know, I wasn't ready to sort of start mentoring financial coaches under the fiscal fitness brand initially. It was two different audiences. I really felt very different when I was supporting them. I would ask myself like, "What hat am I wearing right now? And I would sort of go into that conversation wearing the the right hat, but now it feels like a merging of the two, an evolution of both of my brands coming together under the Spend First brand, which is the methodology that I created. So I'm very excited about it. It's been a lot of work, but it's been a fun, fulfilling evolution for the most part. I would say feels like a coming home in some ways. Macy Robison 8:20 I love when you describe it that way, and it's been so exciting to watch you merge all of these things. It really has been a swift, swift transformation and transition. And would love to hear you talk a little bit about what you were trying to figure out when you first came across this work and across the archetypes. If we want to talk a little bit about your specific archetypes and and the way you're wired, we can certainly jump into that. Speaker 1 8:45 Yeah. So when I first came to you, I really just felt as if the business was focused on one very minor part of what I had created over the years, and I didn't know how to make it bigger. So I kept thinking about sort of thought leadership, and I was like, I have this method that I've created that you know more people are finding out about, but the method is just one piece of this greater methodology and this greater philosophy around money, and I don't know how to expand that. You know, I couldn't figure out sort of like where the missing piece was, and so let me just say it this way: like, I came to you because I didn't couldn't figure out what was wrong. I just felt like something was missing. I felt like there was a gap that I couldn't spot. I couldn't pinpoint it. I couldn't name it. You know, I consider myself a very logical person, a very practical person. I trust my ability to make decisions and sort of analyze decisions and evaluate them and feel as if I'm going about them the right way. And in this way, I kept thinking I want to solve this problem. I felt like there was a problem to solve, but I couldn't even identify very clearly what the exact problem was, if that makes sense. And so, because of that, it kind of felt like the things I. Trying weren't working, and I realized I was like, I just need to take a step back and like just learn about myself. I started googling like thought leadership, and that's how I came across you because I was like, I think there's something more here about it's me connected to my work. You know, it wasn't just about me and my mindset necessarily. I feel like that's almost too soft of an approach, it was like there's something strategic that I am doing that is my essence, and I don't know what it is. Like I don't know how to that. In a sense, I don't know what it is. I can't replicate it. I can't duplicate it. I can't scale it, and that sort of thing. And so I came to you to say because I I saw that you were doing some things on thought leadership. I took your assessment on your website for free, and it like really blew me away. So that's when I was like, okay, I got to reach out to her because this was very insightful for me. Macy Robison 10:50 I love it. Yeah, I I think that's the thing that's been so interesting about having the opportunity to work with you. I'm sure it's the financial side of like you're really good at pinpointing when something's not working and going after like how to reconcile. I mean, to use a financial term, essentially, like something's out of balance, and like let's take a step back and see what's actually going on here. And yeah, when you took the archetype assessment, you're a transformational guide like I am, and then also strategic advisor, which makes a ton of sense in terms of your ability to solve these problems in real time, and then you also have category creator, which we haven't talked about a lot in these interviews yet. But that, you know, that you've got your primary archetype, and then you've got the blend of those top five that come back when you look at your free results, your initial results, and looking at all of those together, and you know when when I work with clients, we look at the actual numbers behind the scenes to kind of calibrate the way you express yourself. And it's interesting to me, you've got transformational guide. It's pretty high. You know, 30% is kind of what we talk about the the number where we start to pay attention, and those those top three archetypes I just mentioned are all very close to or above 30% Transformational guide is 43% which made a ton of sense with the coaching that you've done, and just helping people transform their financial reality instead of just helping them invest. Like you know, the wiring to take them from point A to Point B, solving those problems in real time as a strategic advisor. But the thing I've also thought is interesting. We could talk about this later, but that category creator piece of the Speaker 1 12:30 way that we've been doing this is not working. So I'm going to invent a new solution, which in your case is spin first. So would love to start just kind of by unpacking when you saw transformational guide and then maybe strategic advisor as well. What was your reaction and what did it kind of uncover or reveal? I guess or explain that you hadn't been able to name before or pinpoint before when you were googling thought leadership. I read my first three categories, which, like you said, were transformational guide, and then strategic advisor, and then category creator, and it was just this wave of clarity that hit me because it was like every my entire journey up until that point. Which again, this was what a year ago when I first took it. So I had been in business for 16 years at that point. You know, I'd had quite a journey with my business, and I looked back and I was like, literally, that's exactly what I did. Was I followed these three archetypes almost to a T, and I was like, it was just so. I think it's very powerful anytime you can name something, like give something a name to a pattern. I think that's something that I do really well. Obviously, it's literally in my archetype, and it's something that I do, and here I was like, that was the pattern that I could sense in myself that I didn't have a name for. I didn't have a way of sort of talking about it or really clearly seeing it, and so that just really helped me. I think because I do appreciate pattern recognition, that is where my strategy advisor, strategic advisor, comes in. It was like I just couldn't even see my own pattern. Is really what it was, and so when I think about how it was like, I knew there was something missing. There was something bigger. It was like I could pinpoint the really specific frameworks and the specific methodologies and that sort of thing. But sort of the overarching, like who am I inside of all of these frameworks and these philosophies? That pattern was what I couldn't spot, and as a strategic strategic advisor, I really think it was that lack of pattern in myself that I couldn't recognize that was really holding me back from being able to sort of like see the whole situation clearly. Macy Robison 14:34 That makes a ton of sense, and I think for a lot of people, it does feel like this almost exhale. Like, oh, I finally get it. Like this makes a lot of things make sense, and that's honestly what it was for me. Even when I took the assessment for myself, it's like I get it. That's why I'm designing the way I am. I'm I'm trying to show up in some of these other spaces, and it feels like I'm copying and pasting. It doesn't feel like me. Was there anything else that you feel like? Oh, I can see why that works. Now I can see why that didn't work before. That kind of understanding these archetypes helped with. Speaker 1 15:06 It absolutely helped me see why my business model, or essentially where all of my thought leadership came from over the years. But it also helped me to see why my business model was flawed and why I was sort of dissatisfied at the moment. I was feeling unfulfilled. I would essentially removed myself from any transformational guide work, which is what you're told to do when you're the CEO and you're leading a business and you're growing and scaling. Is like get to a point where you remove yourself from the day to day service, you know, or the meeting with the clients and that sort of thing. And I had done that. I had followed that advice, but then I felt like that is where so much of my inspiration and lessons and takeaways and you know one of the things that it says is that I think by as a transformational guide I think by walking a light alongside someone through transformation. I don't know what a person needs until I'm with them and I respond intuitively to what's happening in the moment. So I want you to imagine that, like, as a business owner, as a thought leader, I had removed my number one source of inspiration and knowledge. You know what I mean? So it's like all of my empowerment comes from meeting with people one on one. And at the time, I was sort of saying when I first came across you and your thought leadership archetype and all of that, I I kept saying like I want, I miss the work. Like here, I am managing people who get to do the work I love, but I don't get to do the work I love anymore. But I wasn't naming it as like I I miss being a transformational guide. You know, I was helping people, but I was really helping people more on scale, and I was much farther removed from one to one work at that point. And I kept saying like I miss it, I miss it, but I didn't know why I missed it. Like really, the ripple effect that it created in my business was that I was just sort of going through the motions. I was lacking sort of inspiration. I was lacking sort of that that transformation that fuels me when I help people. Right. So it felt like I was creating content based on what people needed, but I didn't really know it's what people needed because I wasn't the one doing the one to one work anymore, if that makes sense. Oh, Macy Robison 17:03 it totally makes sense, and I think that's one of the tricky things when we hear traditional business advice, which isn't wrong. That that scaling requires you know making sure you bring people in, delegating some of that work. But I think the thing that's different when you are the face of your business, and you are the person whose resonance signature is infused in everything. When you follow some of that advice and inadvertently give up something that is the source of who you are and how you're wired, that feeling you're kind of describing of like I miss this and I don't know why, or things aren't working as well as they used to, or I just really love being with people, and I'm not supposed to, so I guess I won't. That that leads us down a couple paths. One of which is like I just don't love running my business anymore, and we make different decisions. I think you can scale in a lot of different ways, and one of the ways you can is by influencing people directly and having those conversations with them, and and that's a lot of of what I, you know, for my seed, it feels like you've done, which is so inspiring to watch. Speaker 1 18:08 Thank you. Yeah, so that was definitely part of it. I think another part of it was, you know, a realization. So that was sort of with the the business model, my offers, my offer design was not supporting my thought leadership. You know, like the way that I show up best is sort of what that aha was. And so then I immediately started to go and make changes to getting back into the groove, getting back into the service, all of that, which I'm now currently doing and I love. But then I also realized that my strategic advisor, you know, which is next, right? Like right away. I mean, I'm five percentage away from those two things, so they're really like one and two. They go hand in hand a lot of the times. Is that I then take all that one to one work and I see patterns in the conversations that I'm having and the work that I'm doing, and then I create frameworks and tools for other people to replicate that can be very customizable to the person, which is what I love most. I love doing that, and that's where me mentoring other coaches comes in because I can tell them, here's an individual scenario you'll come across, but if you zoom out, here's how that fits into all of these other scenarios that you might come across with your financial coaching clients, and here's how you can apply the same framework across many different scenarios and that sort of thing. Yeah, and again, just being able to sort of identify that-that is my process, that that is a natural, intuitive, instinctual type thing that I do-was really helpful. And then it also, I think, helped me pinpoint why marketing has been so hard for me these last like six, seven years. I would say, and it has a lot to do with I the idea that I, if I'm just talking with a person one on one, I feel like I'm at my best. I know exactly what problems they're facing. I can see it so clearly, and I really consider it my job to take the picture that is forming in my head when they're talking about their situation and making that picture as clear for them. Possible, right? So, giving the picture that's in my head and giving it to them, and if all marketing was that for me, I think I would be able to do it so easily. But because I also create frameworks and I have the strategic advisory backup, what I want to do is have a really mass impact. I want to have massive reach. I want to take these frameworks and say these can be applied to everybody and anybody, and you can help a lot of people with these. And that feels that's when marketing starts to get really hard for me. Is because my transformational guide, I just want to talk to a person and have an impact on them, and that's where my own inspiration comes from. Marketing feels hard a lot of it because of social media. It feels like you're just talking at people a lot of the times. It feels like your message has to like reach a lot of people at once. And I'm sort of like, I just want to talk to one person at a time. I also think back to how my business started from a marketing perspective, which is all referral based. I would just go meet one on one with financial planners and advisors and CPAs and say, I can help your clients with cash flow if they need it, and they would refer business to me. But the idea that like I actually want to have a bigger impact and I want to have a massive reach in my profession and in my industry, but you know I don't know how to do that when where I show up best is one on one. It doesn't feel like I can have a big enough ripple effect that way. Macy Robison 21:19 Make I want to put a pin in that and come back to that because I think that is a common feeling among folks who are transformational guides, in particular. That idea, you know, not only is the conversation where the best transformation is occurring and where it feels most natural and it feels most effortless, but then it that runs counter to a lot of the advice that's out there on how to market, on how to do some of those things, and so we'll end up trying to copy and paste some of those tactics. They don't feel like who we are, and when we try to like soldier on and do them anyway, they don't always have the effect that they're promised to have, and they're frustrating to execute on. You said a lot of the transformational guide stuff had to do with your offers. You completely reconstructed your offers. You've been doing different things with your marketing. You've got a book coming out later this year. It's been really cool to see once how how once all that snapped into place, it informed the decisions you were making and unlocked some velocity. Speaker 1 22:18 It definitely feels that way. Yes, it felt like I knew something was wrong. I couldn't quite put my finger on what it was. I couldn't see it very clearly, and then understanding my thought leadership archetype really helped me to see it so much more clearly. And then once I was able to spot it, was like, "Oh, here's what's wrong. Then it was easy for me to figure out how to fix the offers. Like the design of my business model became a lot more clear, and so I was able to take swift action on it. And now I'm in the phase, you know, like you said, I've got my book is published, being published on November 11th to help people manage their money according to this methodology, the spend first methodology. Lots of really exciting things. I feel very good about that. And now I'm in the stage where I'm like, okay, now I need to start marketing and I need to start promoting. I spent about three months just reaching out to anybody that I have known over the last 16 years and just saying I haven't talked to you in a while. I've got some crazy things happening in my business. I'm making some changes, but I'm really excited about them. I would love to talk with you about what those are and also you know get up to speed on what's new with you and how things are going for you and all of that, and I probably did you know 51 to ones in like a month, right? And honestly, people look at me like that's crazy. I loved every minute of it. I was like, these conversations just fuel me, and like I love talking with people one on one and just like really getting into like the deep conversation, like I don't want to know what's happening on your Facebook. Don't tell me what's happening on your Instagram, whatever. But like, tell me, like, have a good conversation about how is life treating you right now? How's business? Like, I want to hear all about it, you know. And I love these conversations. And so many of them said, like, I'd love to help you. Like, let me know when the book comes out, how I can help you, all of that, and I feel like I can very naturally leverage those relationships and also do it in a very reciprocative way, right? So, like, I'll ask for help, and I'll also say, "What can I do for you? You know, that feels so good to me, and it's also not going to be enough. I'm very aware of that as well. I need to be doing more. I definitely feel pressure, Macy, to do reels and social media and like more campaigns and ads and like all these kinds of things in order to reach more people with the way that I can help them. And I am on the struggle bus. I'll be honest; like I don't want to do those things. They don't feel like a natural extension of me, and I also feel torn because, like, a little bit of inner turmoil. Because it's like, but I know I can help people if they just hear about this. Like, I genuinely know that they will feel so grateful and happy and relieved and see their money more clearly and all sorts of things if they just hear about it. Which means I need to like have a bigger platform, and yet I just want to sit like this. I could talk like this all day with you and just have a one-on-one conversation. And so that's definitely where I feel some some conflict. Macy Robison 25:12 Well, let's talk about that a little bit because I think it will be helpful for the folks who are transformational guides or strategic advisors. Because I, when I talk with clients and when we when I do my weekly workshops and we kind of get into some of the archetype stuff, we what always comes up is these experiential connection based transformation based problem solving in real time archetypes of which they're your top two are tricky when it comes to some of those those tactics that you know, like you said, I'm supposed to do reels, I'm supposed to run ads, I'm supposed to do all these things, and there really is a disconnect, I think, between how connection feels and how broadcast feels, and what I would love to figure out if there's there's a way we can bridge the gap between how you're creating some of that content that might show up in those spaces that feel broadcast based, so that you can broaden your reach and get in those rooms and still have a resonant signal that feels like you. Because I think the trap, and I call it the copy paste trap for a reason, is when we just say, "Okay, well, I got to muscle through, like we said earlier, and do it anyway. I don't want to create reels. I don't want to talk straight to camera. It feels like not who I am. It just doesn't ring as true, and it doesn't travel as far as a signal. It's not always going to land perfectly because we've got algorithms and other things we're dealing with. But if we can design for the way we're wired. We've got the best possible chance of reaching people. So you know, in your report, it talks about some of the things you're doing so naturally already. Pattern sharing content, podcast appearances like this, where that strategic thinking can come through, the strategic partnerships and the conversations, and and having referral systems that are part of what you're doing. So, I would love to kind of dig into this a little bit as we're thinking about the book. If something needs to end up in social media, you know, some creation processes that might feel a little bit more natural to you. What would what are you doing now with your podcast and and maybe looking at conversations that could be recorded and shared instead of you just talking straight to camera. Speaker 1 27:26 Yeah, I think that was definitely one strategy that you shared with me really early on that has been instrumental and helpful. So I do want to just sort of share that very quickly, which is I have a podcast. It it was always the sort of the top of my funnel, so I would write the episodes, and then that would sort of trickle down to all of our other content. So we would then repurpose that content. But on the podcast, I noticed that I was talking about coaching; it wasn't me demonstrating coaching. And so that was one of the changes that I made right away: was that I took and I started just doing coaching sessions right on the podcast. So I would turn them into episodes, or we'd actually interview somebody on the podcast, but it was a coaching session, and so then it was like sort of me demonstrating, not me talking about doing the thing, but me actually doing the thing. That felt really good. I actually felt like I was getting my like groove back and that sort of thing. And then what we've also done, because again, I changed my business model, so I'm back to doing one-to-one work, which I love. I'm so glad that I do it. So my best days are the days where I'm doing my client work. And what we do is we take the videos from those and we release them as reels. Only my my portion, so we never release client audio, we never release the client video or anything like that. But it's really just me and how I'm showing up in the session. So usually little clips or that sort of thing, and I do think that that has been really helpful as well. So just examples of taking the work and just broadcasting it, I guess, as opposed to creating content for the purpose of being broadcast, and that has been really helpful. But again, it's sort of like that's my current strategy, but it can't be my only strategy, if that makes sense. So here is my plan for the book: is we already have the website done, and we have a waitlist for the book and all that sort of stuff. So we will begin promoting that and talking about it. So I have two main ideas for sort of getting the word out. The first one is I am going to read the book on the podcast, so each chapter is going to be released as an audio chapter on the podcast. So each episode will be a chapter. So all of the next season of the podcast, which we're rebranding it from Financial Coach Academy podcast to the Money Made Human podcast, which I'm very excited about. That was the other thing again, just sort of like feeling as if I had compartmentalized myself a little bit. So it was like I had where I talked about money with my fiscal fitness clients, but then I talked about business with the Financial Coach Academy coaches, and it so money made human is really the overarching philosophy that encompasses all of. Right, and so the podcast is going to shift to being about all of it, so about money and about business and life and that sort of thing. So I'm very excited about it. And the next season will be the book itself being released. It is not going to be on video though, so it'll be audio only. That feels easier or more natural for me. Macy Robison 30:18 The thing that's nice about the shift in the podcast is you can continue to do that coaching and have those conversations once the book is read and done, and they can go back to the chapters in the book and get people to buy the book. Like you'll always have that as a referential point, which is awesome. Speaker 1 30:34 Yeah, I wonder if you've noticed this, Macy, or if other transformational guides have noticed this. That I think because I can again, like I love just talking with one person at a time, and how I explain something to one person is likely going to be different than the way I explain it to the next person because I'm going to sort of morph into who they need me to be. If they're a very detail-oriented person, if they're a more emotional person, like I'm going to connect with them on their money in the way that I am sensing they need it, right? So then I think what happens for me when it comes to marketing is because I do have a team of people who takes my videos, like you said, and tries to create content out of it, whether it's carousels or that kind of thing. And I think this is more of a me issue than anything else, which is that like no matter what piece of content I see on my own brand, I can see an exception to it because of my transformational guide. Like I'm sort of like, yes, that's accurate, and it also still feels slightly performative despite it being accurate. Because I'm like, yes, but on everything because I can see different situations and scenarios, and it's almost like I am so worried that it's going to be taken so literally, and my transformational guide wants it to apply to each person individually, and so I think that's where a little bit of my marketing and messaging, where I feel disconnected from it, even if it's totally accurate. Macy Robison 31:59 That makes a ton of sense, and I also wonder if there's a way to say, even in the caption, or have your team put some sort of framing around the conversation to say, if you are someone who is struggling with the emotional side of money, this video is going to really equip you well, and maybe give them a bridge that way. That might be a way to start bridging that gap, and even thinking like the way you just articulated that was really strong. To just even acknowledge the fact that everyone has their own personal relationship with how money works. The thing that I think is really powerful about your framework is you've done a good job of synthesizing all of those patterns that people have in common, and just acknowledging that they have their own way they're going to interact with them, their own way they're going to use this information, and that is great. I think it's okay to meet people where they are and be deliberate about that. And and then the person who is maybe more emotional around their relationship with money can give themselves permission to lean in a little bit more. And you can point folks to other things if if that feels like not exactly right. I think it's just acknowledging the the personal relationship we have with money might take care of some of that cognitive dissonance for you, because I imagine that people are still like resonating with what you're sending out, regardless. Speaker 1 33:35 Yeah, I think that's good. I think the other question I have for you, Macy, around sort of marketing and messaging, and part of why I originally found you was feeling as if I demonstrate thought leadership, and yet, and I can see that I have been influential in my industry, but also feeling as if that is oftentimes not tied back to me. So I see people sort of like sharing messages that they've learned from me, but not. I don't want to say giving credit because it's not necessarily about that for me. I I don't want to make it about like, oh God, they're stealing my content. It doesn't feel like that necessarily. That's not what I'm saying. It feels though as if I am missing something. And again, it's sort of like I feel like my gap is in my strategic advisor. Like I think my thought leadership is looks at patterns, and that's where my frameworks come from, and my concepts come from my strategic advisory. But from a marketing perspective, I don't know how to embrace my strategic advisor. I think is what it Macy Robison 34:40 is. That makes sense. Often, if someone has that as their primary archetype, one of the things that I will encourage them to do is is break down things, like talk about their framework, talk about how that works. I have some clients that are really good at breaking things down by creating diagrams, and as though they would do it on a whiteboard, or I have a client. That has one of those big vibe boards. That's an electronic whiteboard, and she, on her podcast, she just will stand up and and they film her because that works better for something like YouTube. And she'll just start drawing things out and diagramming things because that's what she does on a call. So sometimes it's taking that natural tendency of the pattern matching that you would do with an individual, and and just embracing that, or like live diagnosing a problem that came up on a call. I think that is sometimes the road in, because then it gives people the option to personalize it to themselves. Speaker 1 35:36 Yeah, I think that's really helpful because one of the things that I was doing was I would do the coaching episodes, right? I would coach somebody on the podcast, and then the follow-up episode was an inside the session episode where I would essentially break down the patterns or the frameworks. Or when I say this concept, here's you just saw me demonstrated at the 13-minute mark, sort of thing in this in the session, you know. But one thing I have not done that I'm sort of taking away from this conversation is applying that same method to my frameworks. Where I again I do it when it comes to a conversation that I've had with a person, like a coaching session. But I'm not doing that when it comes to just talking about one of my frameworks. Here's why. Let me break this down for somebody. Here's how you would apply it. I hadn't really thought about it from like an inanimate perspective on the framework itself, Macy Robison 36:26 and sometimes that helps. I will pull different frameworks into different conversations and workshops and in conversations like this, depending on what's going on, and then try to talk about how that applies in a general way. And I think that I think that would help a ton, but the thing I love about the way you approach your work and the way that you structure things is just it comes from this deep care. And you shared a little bit about your mom and watching her and wanting to just help people. And when a problem comes up, it's just really inspiring to watch how you take a look at it, find the pattern, and just want to help the human behind the problem that is emerging, so that they can live with more ease and and not so much stress. It's awesome, and I'm so excited for more people to know about the work that you do and interact with you directly because you've helped so many people, and you're stepping into this season where you're choosing to amplify all of that and step on a bigger stage. And I think you know this podcast is called Own Your Impact, and that's part of the reason why you've been making an impact already. And owning it and stepping forward sometimes brings up these questions. I'm glad we had a chance to talk through some of them. Sometimes we've got to tweak things and figure things out when we're in the room, and that to me feels like what's happening, and that's totally normal and natural. And and you're doing a great job with it. Speaker 1 37:48 Thank you. Yeah, this definitely just feels like the next obstacle to overcome, if you will. You know, I'm not you know anxious about it by any means. I had completely removed myself from the sales process in my business, and so I'm back to doing those. And again, I just really feel like I'm just going through each one of your elements and saying, like, how can I structure this in a way that is better for me and my thought leadership? And I feel like I'm there. This is just the next layer of the onion that I'm peeling, sort of thing. And I just tell myself other people have solved this problem before me. I just have to sort of figure it out. One of my mentors that I somebody I really look up to. Not that this person has any idea who I am, but is Brian Stevenson from Just Mercy. You know, I mean, I could go through his entire you know resume, but he you know talks a lot about the power of proximity and how to really solve a problem on a in a big way, you actually just have to be really close to the problem and really hands on with the problem. He talks about you know going into a prison and helping an individual inmate and like those types of things and just really powerful message. And he has had a massive impact on the world in this really great way. But he really talks about just staying really close, and that is something that I think about as a transformational guide. Of like, it's just this one person that I'm helping, but if I can keep finding ways of talking about how I'm helping people from a thought leadership perspective, that I can have a bigger impact. And you know, I think it's more of the the mechanics of how to do that that gets tricky sometimes. But the what is right there at my fingertips. Thanks to you, so thank you for that. Macy Robison 39:24 I love it. I would say that is the perfect way to do it. This is a this is a to be continued story. We'll have to check back in when the book comes out and see how all of this got reconciled. But I just really appreciate you taking the time to talk through this. And I would love just to kind of wrap up. Just ask, you know, folks who are listening, what would you tell someone who maybe just got their results or is kind of grappling with their archetype test in this first piece of this whole system and isn't sure what to do with them, what to think about? Speaker 1 39:56 I think self awareness is one of the greatest. Things we can unlock, you know, and we're always growing, we're always evolving, and so you're never done sort of like leaning into your own understanding of yourself. For me, what I would recommend is similar to what I did, which is like I just kept reading it over and over and over again. The results I would read it, I would be thinking about my health journey, and then I would read it again, and I would think about my business offer, and then I would think read it again. I would think about how I parent, you know, like all these different. It really did influence so many different parts of my life and help me to better understand my drivers, my internal motivation, all those types of things. But it didn't come from one pass. You know, it was sort of like every time I would read it, I would read a different sentence slightly differently because of something I had uncovered the last time I read it, and that sort of thing. I it's similar to Atomic Habits, Macy. I've read that book a number of times too, and sometimes I read it and I'm like, oh my god, here's how I apply this to my health or my fitness or my habits in that area, you know, and sort sort of thing. So very similar. So I would just encourage people to read it, sort of. I think feel like intimately understand it. I would say, and keep asking yourself, well, what more can you learn about yourself as you read it? It was, it wasn't something that I gained just in one pass. I will say that it was sort of like every time I read it, I would discover something new. Macy Robison 41:18 I love that. That's such great counsel, and I've never heard anyone say that. So I love hearing that. That's what you did, and I hope folks will take that to heart and and do it well. Just to kind of finalize, finish things off. Where can people learn more about the work that you're doing, and if they need help with some things, I think everybody does with their financial practices and mindset. Where can they find you, and what would you like them to do? Speaker 1 41:42 Yes, you can find me at spendfirst.com. I would love to have you check that out. Spendfirst is a forward-looking money system built around your paycheck rhythm, not a calendar month. So you're not tracking what already happened. It shows you what's about to happen, so that you can see what's coming. And I would love for you to check it out at spendfirst.com, and you can contact me there. All the links are there to reach me. Macy Robison 42:07 Perfect. Thank you for your time, and really excited to see what happens next. Speaker 1 42:12 Thanks, Macy. Macy Robison 42:14 Now, after listening to Kelsa, here's the thing I would love for you to sit with. None of the advice that she was given about growing her business was bad advice. You should apply leverage when you're growing your business, and sometimes that does mean stepping out of delivery, building a team, stopping being the bottleneck for things. For a lot of businesses, that is exactly the right move. And Kelsa is excellent at execution. She grabs something and runs, and she executed it well. But I believe that when you're the face of your business, when you're the one whose resonance is infused in everything you do, you can follow that advice. And depending on your wiring, you might inadvertently give up something that is the real source of who you are, and where the real energy of what you love to do, where that comes from, a transformational guide really needs to be in conversation with people, and we don't know what a person needs until we're sitting with them, sitting across the table from them, talking with them. Kelsa responds to what's actually happening in the moment. So when she moved completely away from the one-on-one work, in her words, she really did remove that number one source of inspiration and knowledge. Kelsa said something in this conversation that I keep coming back to since I'm a transformational guide as well. She really knew something was wrong. She couldn't put her finger on it. She couldn't see it clearly. But once she found the pattern, getting in proximity with clients again, redesigning her offers, looking at her content was so much easier. And I have to tell you, this reconstruction of her business model and all the things she's doing has happened fast. I remember she said one day her offer design her business was not supporting her thought leadership, and once she saw it, she couldn't unsee it. And I really love where she's landed on the marketing side of things. She kept saying again and again she felt so disconnected when she had to talk to a camera and there wasn't a person there, and one of the things that she did and she solved for was by taking the work she was doing, having a conversation with someone, and broadcasting her side of the conversation instead of just randomly creating content for the purpose of being broadcast. She was documenting; she wasn't creating, and that makes a big difference. So there are lots of things you could take from this, but what I want you to hear is if you've been quietly missing a part of the work that you were told to hand off, that feeling is data, and it's worth taking seriously. Sometimes it might just be a preference, and that's fine. But sometimes what you hand off might be the thing that's feeding everything else, and no amount of discipline or scaling or team can make that feeling come back, and the one way to know for sure, I believe, is by taking the archetype assessment, because that's where you find out what your primary archetype is, what your top five archetypes are, what you're really dealing with, and then you can start to make different decisions as a result. The link to the assessment is in the show notes. You can go to macy robison.com. Forward slash quiz, and anytime you want to learn a little bit more, not just about how that primary archetype works that you get back right away, but the rest of the archetypes that blend together in your top five, I would love to see you at one of my workshops. You can find information on those at macy robison.com forward slash workshop. Here's to sending a clearer, more resonant signal, and I'll see you next week. Thank you for joining me on Own Your Impact. Remember, there are people out there right now who need exactly what you know, exactly how you'll say it. Your voice matters, your expertise matters, and most importantly, the transformation you can help others create matters. If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love for you to become part of our growing community of thought leaders who are committed to creating meaningful impact. Macy Robison 45:51 Subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone you know who is ready to amplify their voice. And if you're ready to dive deeper, visit macy robison.com for additional resources, frameworks, and tools to help you build your thought leadership platform with intention and purpose. And remember, your ideas don't need more luck. Your ideas don't need more volume. Your ideas need a system. And I'm here every week to help you build it. I'm Macy Robison, and this is Own Your Impact.